Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

(not really suffer, because i enjoy these sexy times even more than him, actually xD)

he needs a cure for his sadness (edited)

HOW CAN A THOUGHTFORM BE A TULPAMANCERWTF

I personally feel a little bit married to the original meaning- a tulpa can be a tulpamancer if they aided in the creation process. However, I think it's fair to call any tulpa or host who practices tulpamancy as something they want to do a tulpamancer. I feel on the fence about calling myself a tulpamancer even though I think most wouldn't have too much of a problem calling me one

My definition for the word is quite broad, and basically consists of any system or identity that possesses the skills required intentionally generate or manipulate identities/thoughtforms.

Tulpas say the damndest things sometimes lmao

4:12 PM

Kolya just told my friend that "being a reincarnation of Kierkegaard would be so much more creative than my own kins, I'm much too... respectable... I want to go feral" and our friend was like "are you okay dude?" and then another friend was being teased about their art not being good and he was like "no, they can make art! even if it's bad" I'm--- (edited)

4:13 PM

This is /pos bc I too want to go feral but still lmao

4:15 PM

Other quotes is he told our grandmother "I want to have white gloves like the rats in the song 'rats with white gloves' by Agatha Christie" (the Russian band) and everyone just went hmm??? lmao

4:19 PM

I think it's something about the monotone delivery and pausing to find the right words even as he just blurts out whatever the hell we're thinking that makes it even better

They are answering questions consciously however they are short and they need to be prompted. Good progress?

_Dan

They are answering questions consciously however they are short and they need to be prompted. Good progress?

yep

This is an idea I came up with for the weekly tulpa update idea, even though I'm probably not going forward with that. I have to share this because I can't resist-

Skill building idea:

Roll a die in your wonderland.

How do you know your die is random? What technique did you use? What is your die made out of? Are the numbers debossed or are they painted on? How does the die feel in your hand/paw/etc. when you hold it? How does gravity work in your wonderland?

Now roll again and then tell me if you noticed anything different.

Challenge: Add watermelon and you tell me how that makes sense.

1

I feel like this visualization is so ingrained in my RPG-playing brain that it doesn't contribute at all to anything anymore. I can hear the distinctive and accurate sound of a dice hitting a wooden table and clattering to a stop with extreme clarity. I didn't seem to miss anything the first time, but I would suspect that is because I have thrown dice likely thousands of times. The only major difference between the two tosses is that in the first toss I imagined a very generic d10 (always debossed by the way, but usually with paint or it can be difficult to see on many colours of dice), a transparent orange one that I know exists somewhere in my long-running GM friend's dice bag of hundreds of dice. I noticed it for the second throw so I automatically defaulted to my own dice set which I believe I've currently used somewhere between 5 and 10 years at this point. Marbled blue paints as a base with gold-painted numbers. The numbers being a little faded with use. I also threw it slightly more lightly doing the throw where you essentially just rotate it in the air rapidly and drop it. Also I very much doubt it's random because I know how not-random all machines are at generating randomness. But it gave me what felt like a random number each time and that's all that really matters. I wouldn't rely on it as a random number generator though, humans are much more biased than pseudo-random RNG systems are. I also took a bite of your watermelon at the same time in the second throw. Your challenge mode was nothing! Wat now Mind-Demon! drops microphone

The skill building exercise was definitely aimed for those closer to my visualization ability, which is not master class. Hmm... at this point I think you should be competing with straight up reality. You don't have to impose yet, but try this. Take two dice of your choosing and imagine a third die. Roll all of them together. Does your imagined die feel like it meshes with reality?

You'd think that would be harder but that's considerably easier than doing a raw visualization for me. Give me something complex to visualize on the fly and if it's sufficiently bigly there'll be gaps. But I don't struggle to alter details of my environment and composite them into a new image at all. Looking at physical dice doing their thing is reference material.

4:29 PM

Occasionally when I do find it difficult to visualize something, I've actually done things like that before purposefully to provide myself with the experience of a similar image so that I can better simulate it.

It might sound weird, but after hours of forcing and Felicja's activity

4:20 AM

Our thoughts are mixing so much that i didnt know who i am for a while

4:21 AM

Plus, she was the one "thinking on the front" today for a quite long time.

Blending is pretty universal as an experience that happens when you practice switching. I think it ultimately means that even singlets acting in less conscious autopilot states aren't really using their own identity, they're just presuming they are. Just need to ground yourself and continue.

Since the discussion on schemas passed I'll continue it here: Tulpas having their own unconscious map (more or less) makes sense to me. Our headmates create similar trains of thought, even when we're not aware of them. When Bune was thinking about integration again, he looked at through some old logs and he found he thought about it before. Our headmates also are more likely to recall memories important to them than we are to. I suspect the unconscious mind creates randomness in any individuals thought patterns, but that doesn't contradict the possibility tulpas draw from "their own" unconscious mind.

Sure, but I would avoid thinking of it as somehow their own. What you're describing is simply mnemonic association. The brain packages everything away into states and complete actions and you will remember something better when you're bringing up states that correlate with those memories. In a way you can interpret this as their own unconscious, but I'd say that borders on "anthropomorphizing" the unconscious by presuming it has some innate connection to identity when the behaviour you're rightly pointing out can be seen within individual identities just as much, leading people to struggle to remember things outside of the context of their states and making things like memory palaces highly effective.

I honestly find that ideal. Even though I don't believe we should attempt to recreate complete amnesia, I appreciate the idea it's harder for Gray to access my memories and trains of thought and vice versa. If anything, I wish we could figure out how to better differenciate our memories while switched-in, especially when there are not context clues for who was switched-in at the time

I had an interesting development today. Not sure if anyone wants to hear about it but trying to be less anxious about posting on discord. Basically our separation increased. If our internal organization was a tree before, my two tulpas (Chirs & Candy) would be underneath me (child nodes), now they are beside me (sibling nodes). It feels like we are having to re-learn a lot of communication, but it feels like a good thing. I can feel Candy's enthusiasm to do things as if it was going straight from him to the body to get it to move. I also can now see imagery from him as he interprets the words I write. That's new. He feels more grown up and wants to be free to deviate more from the personality I used as his template. It's an adjustment, but I know it's good. I am having trouble communicating with Chris, but I'm sure I'll get through eventually. Not too worried, just hoping we sort it out soon. All in all, it feels like they went from being a subsystem of my identity to their own identity systems outside of mine. Something like that. Sorry if this is too long to read.

Sorry if this is too long to read.

5:25 PM

Only seven lines. MOAR

5:26 PM

I am happy to hear you are, or have, reached a better state where you feel they are more real, relative to you. Or perhaps just better defined according to their own designs. (edited)

Zen

Sorry if this is too long to read.

what is that skeleton dude from?

No idea.

Deleted User

what is that skeleton dude from?

I think it's a character in the Bleach anime (edited)

koma

I had an interesting development today. Not sure if anyone wants to hear about it but trying to be less anxious about posting on discord. Basically our separation increased. If our internal organization was a tree before, my two tulpas (Chirs & Candy) would be underneath me (child nodes), now they are beside me (sibling nodes). It feels like we are having to re-learn a lot of communication, but it feels like a good thing. I can feel Candy's enthusiasm to do things as if it was going straight from him to the body to get it to move. I also can now see imagery from him as he interprets the words I write. That's new. He feels more grown up and wants to be free to deviate more from the personality I used as his template. It's an adjustment, but I know it's good. I am having trouble communicating with Chris, but I'm sure I'll get through eventually. Not too worried, just hoping we sort it out soon. All in all, it feels like they went from being a subsystem of my identity to their own identity systems outside of mine. Something like that. Sorry if this is too long to read.

I never heard of a host having to relearn how to communicate with their headmates. How did you talk to them before?

A long kiss goodnight

I never heard of a host having to relearn how to communicate with their headmates. How did you talk to them before?

Mind voice, visuals. When mindvoice gets confusing visuals usually still work really well, but it's easier (if less precise) to use words.

1:47 PM

Communication issues are probably on my end 90% of the time. Doubt, confusing them for eachother, or confusing intrusives for them and such. It's a WIP.

At the begenning I set out to only have one tulpa. I ended up with two. I even tried to convince one of them to go dormant and return much later for the explicit reason that I knew developing two young tulpas would be much harder than one. Yet, Chris sent me strong visuals of basically fighting for his life. So I apologized and accepted both of them. After everything that's happened having doubt sometimes seems a little silly really.

2:07 PM

This is probably not how it works, but it's how my mind feels to me. It feels like mind voice communication is often me automatically translating the intent of their intangible communication and rebroadcasting it to myself in a different format. They often will correct what I hear as if the mind voice was close but not accurate to what they wanted to convey. Or I will hear them but then it will be followed up with "That's not what I said" and I'll clearly feel thier frustration. (edited)

That is an interesting way of interpreting intrusive thought or impulsive thought. Thoughts can often be more extreme than intended for example or just random noise you're repeating from somewhere in your head. It's not at all uncommon for us to say something then immediately after go "That was an intrusive thought, ignore that." or dial it back somehow if it was partly true. (edited)

2:14 PM

The general guideline for tulpamancers is to distance yourself from the impulsive thought. To tell yourself it wasn't you at all.

That makes sense Separating the greater mind from the part that is me rather than interpret intrusives as "my thoughts that are intrusive". Might help them be less frustrated with miscommunication for sure.

hi

1

Hello demonic entity that always says hi

night demon (scaly system)

hi

Zen

Hello demonic entity that always says hi

XD

koma

hello

how goes it?

im good

My social anxiety and related problems get in the way of them socializing. I feel bad about it. Candy wants to chime in a lot or even make his own discord account, but my nerosis is an obstacle for him. When we learn to switch fully he will probably make a lot of friends online, but switching is a huge undertaking and wip.

koma

My social anxiety and related problems get in the way of them socializing. I feel bad about it. Candy wants to chime in a lot or even make his own discord account, but my nerosis is an obstacle for him. When we learn to switch fully he will probably make a lot of friends online, but switching is a huge undertaking and wip.

yes switching is a great skill to have jack is only too afraid of other irl ppl he just freezes and then im trapped so i cant switch to help him

I fear it will be a while until we learn it fully. They are still very young, and I still have trouble with the visual component of headspace.

koma

I fear it will be a while until we learn it fully. They are still very young, and I still have trouble with the visual component of headspace.

thast isent really necessary only if you want it

I think it'd be hard for me to fully switch without having somewhere to transition to.

I've heard conflicting things about whether what I experience is even switching or not, but I tend to only co-host/soft-switch. I don't dissociate when switching and I've no interest in dissociating while switched.

2:38 PM

Our practice is focused around changing who is the "originator" of thought.

well ik when i have switched bc then the body doesent speak to other humans bc jack is afraid of them :c

Basically I would just suggest roleplaying as your tulpa and recognizing that there's no difference between that and a different thoughtform making decisions. Roleplay is the lowest common denominator for my kind of switching - Though it can be accompanied with more dramatic effects with a touch of self-suggestion. You can make it as special as you want.

Zen

Our practice is focused around changing who is the "originator" of thought.

That's interesting. I might play with that idea. We have done co-con stuff, but it usually injects a lot of doubt into me. I have had past experience with a trauma part seizing my senses and being co-con so I ought not doubt.

Zen

I've heard conflicting things about whether what I experience is even switching or not, but I tend to only co-host/soft-switch. I don't dissociate when switching and I've no interest in dissociating while switched.

i want to try to dissociate when switching but idk where to start

I definitely wouldn't be the one to ask, but I think dissociation is a slippery slope personally. The goal to my mind should be to have both host and tulpa getting the most out of reality, not going into a blank void or distancing themselves from the memories the body is making.

2:44 PM

And the idea that you can dissociate and go to a wonderland is... well. I've seen very very few people claim they can actually do that. If it can be done it's clearly advanced as fuck.

It's a long-term goal for us. I've met someone (non tulpa) that did it regularly. Assuming it's not a skill exclusively learned as a child, the brains ability to do it is there. It would certainly be nice if Candy could experience life without me as his gatekeeper for a little bit at least.

2:48 PM

He says he doesn't mind me being his "gatekeeper" though, heh.

2:51 PM

If we could do a blend sort of thing with him calling the shots that would be nice. Probably easier to acheuve. Though I fear he'd feel bad for me freaking out and stop what he's doing.

koma

It's a long-term goal for us. I've met someone (non tulpa) that did it regularly. Assuming it's not a skill exclusively learned as a child, the brains ability to do it is there. It would certainly be nice if Candy could experience life without me as his gatekeeper for a little bit at least.

Even co-hosting I don't get the impression I'm somehow in control more than they are. When you recognize that you're not your entire brain, it becomes clear to my eyes that the only one gatekeeping anyone is your unconscious brain and your reflexes.

2:54 PM

Control is an illusion. A very strong one. But still an illusion.

koma

Mind voice, visuals. When mindvoice gets confusing visuals usually still work really well, but it's easier (if less precise) to use words.

Sorry, I'm playing catch up Also having read up on what you and Zen discussed later, I'm surprised you associate mindvoice with intrusive thoughts. Wait, you don't have intrusive thoughts by thinking in visuals and concepts? We struggle to think in concepts, we mostly speak in mindvoice and we use our forms and visual symbolism to communicate. Unsurprisingly, our thinking speed is very slow.

Sometimes the imagination runs on. I suppose that's like an intrusive visual. They will flat out tell me I am not interacting with them when that happens. If I am being more careful I sort of establish a link with their essence and our visuals back and forth are crystal clear. (edited)

We have had our mind's eye black out due to exhaustion before. It's incredibly annoying for me because I keep trying to visualize myself and then Gray gets a headache and tries to think about something else

Mental fatigue is real. We experience it a lot.

hello we are back

Especially since we don't sleep enough.

Jack

hello we are back

welcome back

we got switched again

Zen

I've heard conflicting things about whether what I experience is even switching or not, but I tend to only co-host/soft-switch. I don't dissociate when switching and I've no interest in dissociating while switched.

Eh, studying how someone else switches and wether or not to call it switching is one of the easiest ways to give yourself a headache. Before we could switch, other people would read what we describe and say we switched, but then we would give more information and they would say we didn't. And on top of that, by some people's definitions we were switching even before we achieved our idea of a switch. I don't think your idea of switching matches mine, but I don't think it's wrong for you to say you have achieved switching. In the end, switching is about trading places, the details are no longer really part of the definition anymore. Actually, fun fact, what you're describing reminds me of what Jaeth, my mentee, would describe- he described switching to me as him becoming his tulpa in a way.

3:20 PM

And the idea that you can dissociate and go to a wonderland is... well. I've seen very very few people claim they can actually do that. If it can be done it's clearly advanced as fuck.

Some people claim to do this naturally. If you're truly a hypnosis wizard, I fully expect you can figure it out in less than a week.

A long kiss goodnight

And the idea that you can dissociate and go to a wonderland is... well. I've seen very very few people claim they can actually do that. If it can be done it's clearly advanced as fuck.

Some people claim to do this naturally. If you're truly a hypnosis wizard, I fully expect you can figure it out in less than a week.

Shots fired. My switching practice extends to hypnosis as well though, I've never attempted to achieve dissociative trances and then compel my body to move. My interest has always been cough immersion. Though theoretically that's part of the practice.

3:23 PM

I don't mean to say it cannot happen, merely that everything I've seen anecdotally and indeed through hypnosis implies that it would take a degree of mastery. At least without someone else hypnotizing you.

3:24 PM

I might very well be able. But I won't.

I know enough about parallel processing that there is some experience. I found out that the inner worlds some described (cough asmask included) were very similar to a dream world a particular lucid dreamer described. I figure if two independent groups can get the same thing, there's something happening

3:26 PM

By the way, the LDer's approach was purely mindset based in how dream realms worked.

3:31 PM

You have 6 days and 9 hours. By Friday at 7:30 pm my time I expect you have figured out a way to parallel process

The thing about all of it is that I don't see any reason to do it other than validation or the bad-kind of escapism. What is it that it can offer you? A hypnotic trance is a hypnotic trance at the end of the day. You can experience anything physical you want to in one without walking around in reality. And if you want to walk around in reality, why would you want to not experience what your tulpa is doing as well? Why would you not want to see and experience their excitement, their joy, their boredom. I mean really, motherfuckers, I did not create a tulpa so he could exist somewhere other than in my vicinity. This isn't a child where he'll eventually grow up and leave the nest and that's the last I'll hear of him. I want to see him happy. I want to know why he is happy. And so on. That's the point.

A long kiss goodnight

You have 6 days and 9 hours. By Friday at 7:30 pm my time I expect you have figured out a way to parallel process

Achieved it. And since it's a subjective experience there's no way you can call me on my bullshit=D

In parallel, Rhys wouldn't quiet. In another system who claims to parallel process, their headmates apparently spend most of their time watching what their host is doing as if they were watching tv.

Achieved it. And since it's a subjective experience there's no way you can call me on my bullshit=D

Fair enough, but you have to describe what you achieved.

their headmates apparently spend most of their time watching what their host is doing as if they were watching tv.

But... But this is what I do already, no joke. Like if the only criteria is that they're watching and don't experience a disconnect from reality - That's pretty weak.

3:39 PM

I expect being able to do math while the host runs an internal barbecue for his 20 thoughtform waifus

We can't even do that, but mostly because Ranger can be very distracting when I'm trying to do other things and I kick her out if it's too much.

3:41 PM

I'm not a fan of the 24/7 tulpa concept, if Ranger could be in parallel she would have to do it without bothering me too much

Mmm. Why is it you don't like tuppers being around 24/7?

Even Moltosha doing his best to quietly watch can give me a headache

That's very strange to me. It's like you can't interact without being a nuisance to one another.

I don't like having too little focus to function. That's the main problem. Otherwise, I also will want people to leave if I want some quiet time. Sometimes I would much rather talk to the walls about my math project than talk to my tulpas, I find it exhausting after awhile

hi

I definitely have the majority of the conscious space to myself, make no mistake. Whoever is "fronting", if you call it that, is the person doing the stuff and whoever's tagging along for the ride basically only has limited access to cognition and may interject. There's a distinct difference in my mind between this low-effort passive forcing and actually interacting with Rhys. But it's nice, and there's plenty of space in-between my thoughts for a few moments of thought for them.

3:50 PM

You also describe your thoughts as very... slow? Which is completely alien to me

We can't communicate effectively without using words. Even in our own brain, you would think being autistic we could understand what we're saying... Nope, if Gray is having a meltdown he will devolve to using symbolism and pictures to talk and he's hard to understand. Even without that happening, if Gray thinks something quickly I don't catch it and I have no idea what he was trying to say. We do sometimes need to repeat what we say and we can instantly forget a train of thought

3:53 PM

As a result, our thinking is slow to compensate for errors. That's the theory anyway

... That's fascinating. Does autism disrupt the nature of your raw thought I wonder?

I have the feeling it's an us problem and not an autism problem. I know an autistic system who thought mostly in concepts

Just trying to understand how to think in concepts also feels confusing. If I think "open the door" I think that in words. Sometimes I will have a concept and then I don't know how to describe it, sometimes my headmates can follow when that happens

3:58 PM

Trying to not use words, what we focus on is our forms. We use cartoony symbolism, like a literal question mark over your head, to help support the feeling someone wants to express. We also use body language (to whatever extent)

Mm. I'm recognizing that when I communicate with Rhys it's not simply raw thought, it's raw thought and a full state. Take for example when you described the plight of your communication issues. Rhys, who is currently holding an Old Fashioned, solemnly took a sip while displaying various sadness body language displays and broadcasting a general sense of sadness. The thing is I can do that in less than a second.